Kickass Radio 17| 26 - Kasper Pedersen und Philipp Seipp: Kein Shortcut zur Weltklasse

00:00:09: Hello and welcome to the first English edition of Kick-Ass Radio, the kickass sports podcast.

00:00:15: And this addition is called Kick Ass Sports Ground Conversations for All & None which is a series known in Germany.

00:00:24: For me it's interesting that I have my first English speaking guest and... ...for both us we are not talking on our mother tongue so i'm happy to say Welcome Kasper!

00:00:37: Thank

00:00:39: you so much, Phillip.

00:00:40: It's a pleasure to be here and I'm really happy that yeah You invited me on for the first English edition.

00:00:49: Yes And i think this is in The DNA of our sport.

00:00:52: That we met people from abroad To connect via internet Is something super nice?

00:01:00: We share A lot Of the sport!

00:01:02: I want to start where we met the First time.

00:01:04: Can u remember how we met During a very kind of difficult time.

00:01:11: Yeah, that was back in the COVID days.

00:01:15: it seems A bit like yesterday.

00:01:18: but then also thinking about what has happened The last six years is quite crazy to think off.

00:01:24: But yeah It was...it Was quite interesting our first meeting when That was my first time on the pro Pro series you can say with the PTO Championship In Daytona where we met like two kind of interesting meetings, yeah you can maybe talk about the first one.

00:01:46: Yeah I think it was in the pool uh...in Daytona and i-i think he went to the shower rooms and uh...Servy said hello in a very interesting way to Magnus.

00:01:59: do you still know his words?

00:02:01: And we're still like bully Magnus with that bit actually.

00:02:06: So I think that came after Magnus's great win in seventy point three Poland, which was one of the first races post covid or after that.

00:02:17: Racers were allowed and Magnus won with like nine or ten minutes to Patrick Lange Which obviously people hadn't knew of Magnus at that time.

00:02:29: And all of a sudden there is like a tall Danish guy destroying everyone on the bike.

00:02:36: So it kind of became a thing, I think that people thought that Magnus had like a big draft off the car or something because It can't be true.

00:02:45: That its all Danish guy out-of-nowhere can bike ten minutes from The rest of the field.

00:02:51: so i think Siby said to Magnus that Like oh do you?

00:02:55: At first was quite interesting Because he came over us and obviously we as I said this Was the first time We were with the big boys as he came over and kind of introduced himself.

00:03:07: And I remember we were really like, wow, Civi is coming over to say hello to us!

00:03:13: We got really quite surprised in a positive way... ...and had our conversation for the first two or three minutes talked a little bit.. ..and then we could sense that this conversation was taking turn in different direction from being quite positive.

00:03:30: negative because like Sebi was talking about that his nickname out in town, I think Draft did live.

00:03:39: Because he was drafting on the car and yeah it really hit Magnus actually!

00:03:47: And i think Sebi and Magnus has talked his huge fans of Sebi and when he kind of said that his first victory was based off drafting a big car in the front it actually hit him quite hard.

00:04:05: Yeah, for me as coach is super tricky situation because it's like Sebi pulling elbows to outside one of leading guys during this time And then this weekend turned other way around were spectators during the race and there was this blonde guy from Denmark.

00:04:30: And I couldn't see you, but i could hear you because you were screaming at Magnus in a way... ...I've never seen it before or have never heard it before.... ...during the race!

00:04:40: This was super impressive!

00:04:43: Again, Magnus has shown to everyone what he is capable of on the bike.

00:04:50: so yeah.. Like Magnus gave the answer to Ciby's comment in a very smart way during racing.

00:04:59: Yeah,

00:05:01: I think he wrote on some angle.

00:05:03: so really show Cibi that maybe this was not just due to drafting and... ...I can't remember if I think maybe Magnus did overtake Cibi before he eventually pulled out of the race?

00:05:17: And I think he like looked at him, didn't say anything but just look to him deeply in the eyes and we're like this was not drafting.

00:05:25: Yeah!

00:05:26: In the end Sabi is someone who's always respecting strong opponents.

00:05:30: so that's uh... Not a part of it But i think its funny way of stepping into relationship or meeting people.

00:05:45: one of the strongest guys on the mid-distance, all of a sudden.

00:05:49: And he set new level... ...on the bike circuit and you are part of this story!

00:05:57: So I'm interested in how did YOU come to Triathlon?

00:06:04: How do you end up with Magnus and Daytona?

00:06:07: This is just a story i don't even know.

00:06:10: Yeah it's quite an interesting or different story.

00:06:15: Originally I actually come from motor racing, so... ...I grew up basically two or three years old.

00:06:24: Really interested in cars and especially when there was Formula One on the television Back then also for the German listeners that was obviously the time of Michael Schumacher.

00:06:35: He's a huge fan And ever since i saw it on the TV.

00:06:39: i dreamt about being a Formula One driver When I was five years old, I think i got to a height where could finally like have long enough legs To actually hit the throttle and in the break.

00:06:53: So I started go-karting And did that for ten or eleven years Was really invested also together with my family.

00:07:05: But you can say unfortunately The sport is not only based upon talent is also really much based upon spongeships and how much you can invest in it.

00:07:19: And even though I have been really fortunate to have parents that has been really, really supportive.

00:07:23: then obviously if a team comes say like your are really talented but If You Can Come With Like Two or Three Million Euros Then We Cannot Take Your In and Obviously That's Not Just Something Everyone Can Do.

00:07:38: we tried our very best But when i could see and my family could see that most likely would not be an option for us to take it further than where we got.

00:07:49: Then I didn't really want to pursue it, since i was really curious or passionate about elite sports.

00:07:59: wanting a professional athlete at first started with go-karting being a race driver but ended when I was then fifteen sixteen years old.

00:08:10: Like, I wasn't motivated to just drive for the fun of it.

00:08:14: Uh...I'd still drive go-kart now and then with Magnus actually in Jens And i come out as a winner fortunately Still.

00:08:23: But Then I had like one or two years where Yeah.. I think maybe tried To find myself a little bit because my identity was quite much in racing At that time.

00:08:34: I started high school And for some reason, I found like a YouTube video.

00:08:41: This was the NBC broadcast show they do after Iron Man Hawaii and i just got really fascinated about The Big Island and the images of Krarri and Chris McCormack battling it out.

00:09:03: I think two weeks after i saw that youtube video, That was the first deal and we had back then it was challenge Copenhagen.

00:09:12: And later on has been Ironman Copenhagen but they actually... The bike course just straight in front of my house.

00:09:20: So.. Two weeks After Then all a sudden there is biggest long distance when Denmark was outside Of My House And I felt like There Was Kindof A Sign.

00:09:29: Okay Now I want to try be a triad lead.

00:09:35: So I found the local triathlon club nearby and signed up for that club.

00:09:40: And got really passionate about triathlon, didn't have any swimming background... I did rode my bike again and ran quite often just trying to keep myself in shape for karting and driving race cars.

00:09:57: So that was quite natural to me, but obviously the swimming is a different game.

00:10:01: even when you're fifteen years old and trying to come in it's still difficult to learn.

00:10:06: And so yeah then I actually tried to pursue a professional career within triathlon for maybe three or four years.

00:10:14: Obviously i didn't race as a professional But It Was Always My Ambition To At Some Point Try To Take It To The Next Level.

00:10:23: I think three years into my own career or pursuit of creating a career, I got asked if i could be coach for the local triathlon club where was training at because the coach had to leave and they needed new one.

00:10:42: For some reason I didn't have any coaching background or sports sciences background, anything.

00:10:51: At this time was only eighteen years of age and maybe i've always been quite good at being social talking to people especially the younger ones.

00:11:03: so think they felt that it's natural for me take over as a good relationship with everyone on team.

00:11:12: And yeah, then I took the job just as a side job to my high school and To be honest from them that is now.

00:11:20: Yeah ten or eleven years ago Coaching has actually just been A big passion of mine.

00:11:26: i pretty quickly found out That i had maybe more interest or passion for The coaching side Of it.

00:11:34: obviously did love to do traveler myself keep myself active, but I could feel that.

00:11:42: Got way more excited or like got my emotion invested in it when my athletes were racing instead of myself and i do remember was raising an age group race.

00:11:53: back then thing there was twenty eighteen or twenty nineteen where?

00:11:58: I had another athlete racing as well.

00:12:02: And the only thing you can think about is how will my athlete did And whenever I saw him out on the race course, or was stopping and said like have you fueled enough?

00:12:13: Like are your keeping up with the pacing strategy.

00:12:15: You know these kind of things.

00:12:16: then i think at that time it really hit me that okay coaching is what I should do.

00:12:22: um...and yeah ever since then..I kinda took uh....you can say my coaching tried to take a new level.

00:12:32: At that time in Denmark we didn't had any like talent center or talent development.

00:12:38: Obviously, we had a federation and they tried to be very supportive with those updates but really didn't have any kind of squad facilities in his performance development.

00:12:53: so I just tryed get all the knowledge i could from youtube reading up on studies hearing podcast.

00:13:04: Do I coach?

00:13:05: How do i coach, especially younger people.

00:13:08: And also went on some courses from the Federation to get more experience within communication and coaching in general uh...and also the more scientific side of sport as well um..And then I just tried to build up my own talent development or department you can say and at one time over fifty percent of the national team was, junior National Team was at least based off my squad.

00:13:41: And that is something even though like it's not because we had no huge national teams as same way as Germans has but there were just kind-of I think.

00:13:51: still one thing i'm most proud about Yeah, like a squad environment and the place for their younger athletes where one thing was obviously that they were performing really well.

00:14:06: But I also felt we just had a really good atmosphere And social life around training.

00:14:14: Everyone came to training happy.

00:14:16: It's now looking back... ...I appreciate those moments with the junior-athletes Even though you might not think about it helped me develop to the coach I am today.

00:14:32: And with that being said, like maybe just to summarize it a bit...I think in the beginning of my coaching career and especially when i started later on..and we'll get into that late-on.

00:14:43: but When I started working with professional athletes ...I really....like I had some self doubted.

00:14:49: In fact ,that didn't came from you know.

00:14:52: ..I did not have a master degree or PhD in sports scientist And I really felt that there was kind of a, not a mistake but you know like a limiting factor for me.

00:15:07: But now looking back and obviously getting more matured and have more experience... ...I actually see it as almost the benefit that i learned first to analyze and communicate and understand the athlete And then, because I have always had the interest in scientific side of it.

00:15:28: I've kind-of built that to my coaching.

00:15:31: but for instance when i was working with all the junior athletes they didn't care about lactate They didn't cared about power or anything and just wanted go out.

00:15:39: Go really hard at this time... ...and learned over those six or seven years.. ..when i worked with junior athletes in talent development I think at one time, when they went into the pool that afternoon coming from school just based upon how they walked in to this pool.

00:15:59: I could see if it was a day where i would push them or whether should be there for them... ...or definitely not talk with him as well!

00:16:08: And part of coaching is something which I haven't really thought about up until now.

00:16:16: Like everyone, I think can go out now and especially with you know also AI systems like.

00:16:22: they can create a program.

00:16:23: And you can also copy paste the programs that Norwegians are doing because there really public about it.

00:16:30: but There is just an individualization and communication part of coaching That i think we can never take out of It.

00:16:40: actually you in your biography on Instagram actually describes it really well with a quote.

00:16:46: Yeah, I can remember correctly but maybe you can remember... It's really great!

00:16:52: I think its training in science and coaching is art.

00:16:55: Yes exactly But i think that you learn the coaching side aswell.

00:16:59: so not just an art Its like.... yeah.. but i think it may be as important or even more important site.

00:17:11: Feel comfortable that you have good relationships.

00:17:13: You have a relationship on eye level Do you?

00:17:18: Educate human beings.

00:17:23: You want to work with them in the best possible way and best sustainable way because The longer use is sustained, more likely it becomes.

00:17:31: people are getting better shaping a process together with the athletes.

00:17:40: And as you said, what I really like is that... You got educated by your students and your athletes!

00:17:49: This is something where i feel very similar That every athlete I'm allowed to work with teaches me a lot.

00:18:00: So..I don't tell this everyone but in new iteration of training in every communication, and every relationship I can learn a lot as coach.

00:18:15: And strive to get better coach?

00:18:21: No i think it's really valuable and sometimes underestimated thing about coaching.

00:18:30: I'm turning thirty next year, so still on the youngest side of coaching.

00:18:38: And i think obviously now looking back just three four five years ago like... ...I would have done some completely different things with the persons that are at least that I've been fortunate to work with.

00:18:51: but yeah.. I guess there's also a beautiful part about not only coaching but also life is that you can always learn if you hunger for it!

00:19:01: I believe even if you wouldn't have changed things, then there is no development.

00:19:06: But i would be keen to know more about it like... Is that something from the past?

00:19:12: That you work with the young guns and are now working only as professionals?

00:19:17: or how do you balance this?

00:19:18: ?

00:19:18: Or what does your work today?

00:19:20: How's the um development going on?

00:19:23: yeah so my work today is mostly based upon professional athletes especially Since two years ago, I moved to the opposite side of Denmark actually.

00:19:36: So i used to live in Copenhagen where a lot of the professional danish athletes lives and the Copenhagen squad with Yeah, Magnus obviously but there is also Sif Madsen.

00:19:46: Thor Madsen and Laura Madsen are training in that squad sometimes But she's actually living on the opposite side of Denmark due to her relationship with Copenhagen Squad at times.

00:20:00: I moved to a city called Aarhus which was four hours away from Copenhagen.

00:20:08: Christian Hürgenhaug trained for instance So he lives up in this city.

00:20:12: But since I moved to Ohus, i also decided to leave my junior coaching program back in Denmark because obviously it's really difficult to coach remotely with junior athletes that you have to see them basically every day and at least be in communication.

00:20:31: so I thought... Also..I had worked with juniors for eight or nine years.

00:20:39: At that time before I moved to Aarhus, i had maybe one or two translations years where... ...I was kind of working with both juniors but also professionals and.. ..i actually found it quite difficult.

00:20:51: With- I obviously really wanted to be there for the juniors But I also wanted to be here for the Professionals.

00:20:57: but For The Professionales.

00:20:58: That Also meant that I Had To Travel For Cams, Travel For Racing.

00:21:02: So I Was Kind Of Not Doing Either One Hundred Percent And I felt that was kind of something, i could also feel in my coaching but also Feel it.

00:21:11: My personal life That there was way too much work and kind of dialogue with to many people.

00:21:16: so I decided To leave the juniors and focus one hundred percent on professional athletes.

00:21:22: uh...I do still coach Three junior at least But they were mostly because They Were On The Edge Of Where They Were Translating Into middle-distant racing and professional racing, so for like when we've been working with them ever since they were like thirteen or fourteen years old I didn't really want to be pushed back of that.

00:21:46: So luckily and unfortunately enough They still wanna work on me And then i liked working with the men.

00:21:51: Really curious how can do it in a professional scene?

00:21:54: but yeah To summarize...I Do mostly worked with professionals at least now.

00:22:00: Yes So let's jump into.

00:22:03: maybe the most famous athlete you are working with is Magnus.

00:22:07: And, um... You're part of the coaching team?

00:22:10: That's a right description!

00:22:12: Yeah it's really important for me to emphasize that I'm not the coach or head-coat from Magnus, that is Jens Petersenbach and he has been code for Magnus now seven or eight years age group level up to world-class level as he is now.

00:22:33: I guess my role in the team and it's something that everyone has always asking about because i'm always there but also not you know, one who makes programs for Magnus.

00:22:43: so... The best way to describe this maybe?

00:22:47: That I am an assistant coach more than just a very good friend of mine.

00:22:55: But obviously when we are out on camps or at races preparing, We're really professional in our relation as well.

00:23:02: And I think one of my strengths and the reasons why Magnus wants me to the camps is that maybe outside his moment i know him better than anyone else.

00:23:20: so mostly We don't, it might sound weird but we do not communicate that much actually.

00:23:28: But we just know what to do like.

00:23:30: when you say that we leave for practice at seven... ...we know a quarter-to-seven everything is packed.

00:23:37: I have made sure the car is packed with everything we need for training the lactate meter, the nutrition and hydration etc.

00:23:46: so every thing is kind of smoothness when we are working together and I think i'm really good at analyzing an understand how Magnus operates as a person.

00:23:57: So obviously, im helping out with the things that can on the coaching side where Jens is not able to be there.

00:24:04: The good thing about having Jens As the head coach me in team as well Is That Jens & I Are Working Really Closely Together Also On A Daily Basic.

00:24:16: Some of my junior athletes are now also training in the Copenhagen squad and I'm obviously not seeing them every day.

00:24:23: Jens is really good at taking part in their development as well, so we're helping each other when we're out on races or at training camps where they aren't there but have the same philosophy.

00:24:37: So if i take a decision For, you know say for Magnus' training when I'm there like he doesn't ask questions.

00:24:48: and also the other side around if Jens is making changes with some of my athletes.

00:24:53: Like i don't ask question because we have a lot trust to eachother

00:24:57: Yeah And they think everyone can see it from their outside.

00:25:00: The team of Magnus Is like A very close circle yeah?

00:25:05: You came To the triathlon circuit together and your Very well connected For me as a coach from the outside and obviously you made some results like the Ross record for example or other races where Magnus simply dominated the whole world circuit on the bike.

00:25:27: And this was super interesting, then he made development... You can't dominate it but he is even capable to really run very well off-the-bike.

00:25:40: this was something people noticed from the outside and on the other hand there's not much information I believe about Magnus and his team in the world because you're not that vocal.

00:25:53: And um, i think it's very interesting that your team up in the background... ...and I would like to hear a little bit more of how you optimize things Obviously from the outside.

00:26:09: everything is number driven you're doing.

00:26:11: Magnus is following a pretty strict program how to develop his performances.

00:26:18: and yeah I think maybe you can take us a little bit into this, You have to be very into aerodynamics because you can see that how Magnus Cockpit developed from duct tape cockpit, into a full carbon fiber cockpit working together with the fastest brands on the market.

00:26:45: And let's say there are athletes outside where if they change things assume that they have measured it and others are just copying.

00:26:59: And definitely Magnus and his team, people who definitely measure things before going to try it?

00:27:07: Maybe you can take us a little bit along about this process...

00:27:11: Yeah one hundred percent!

00:27:13: I think maybe most of the listeners' surprise or not but training itself is something magical or really like special compared to I think what everybody else is doing and i think that's also the beautiful thing about our sport now, it's on such a professional level.

00:27:36: That for the majority of top ten in the world.

00:27:43: they are mostly during same stuff.

00:27:45: obviously there're people who can handle more volume.

00:27:53: I think what really makes the biggest difference now is how you operate obviously with a program.

00:28:00: You have, but also how do you operate outside of training and how you kind of take advantage off?

00:28:08: Uh, the expertise you have around you.

00:28:12: so What we have really in this?

00:28:14: as to The biggest like kudos to Magnus for like.

00:28:18: he's really Really good at finding The right people around him.

00:28:25: Like the best example I can come up with was... I think this is after Dubai, the T- one hundred Dubai final in twenty twenty four.

00:28:38: it must have been Magnus had a not..not the best swim.

00:28:43: i think he came out of the water one and half minutes behind but It's just like you couldn't follow the front pack And Magnus obviously really like driven by perfectionism and he just wanted now to be a swimmer.

00:28:58: so after the Dubai race, He was talking for seventy two hours until we had go home.

00:29:06: Can you please find a coach that can see me Monday Tuesday?

00:29:10: Wednesday first day Friday Saturday Sunday at like two hours of work with technical aspects That is like really difficult because also hiring a man that has to be or woman, they can be available and you know the outside hours of an everyday life.

00:29:26: And only being there for Magnus... One thing will be expensive but it's so difficult too find the expertise when we woke up on Monday Tuesday Wednesday first then keep talking about And then for some reason he found maybe the best swim coach we have in Denmark who has been working with like Olympic gold medalist from Denmark, several olympic participants as well and been head coached by The Danish National Swim Team.

00:30:02: He got in touch with him and he's worked with Magnus ever since really developed his swimming.

00:30:09: obviously it is not always that... translate directly into racing, but we can now see the right steps is moving in the right direction.

00:30:18: So that was a good example of like.

00:30:20: if he sees kind-of capacity that can be developed to the highest level... He will figure out a way to have the right people

00:30:31: around him.

00:30:32: But I believe this is

00:30:34: key.

00:30:37: high-performance athlete needs to have, let's say it is a mindset that kind of passionate about the performance or like a driver.

00:30:46: That gives them persistence in going along with what they need and finding right people on their team around.

00:30:58: Would you describe this as a pattern?

00:31:04: Yeah, I mean but i think Magnus is still like the biggest driver of it.

00:31:10: Obviously Jens plays a huge part in this as well and also what Jens really good at As you have for me as well, like you and Jens has really acted as a mentor to me in the way that I've also developed.

00:31:27: So yeah...as you know i used your expertise alot when ive been in doubt of things with jens And what i learned from jens is he knows everything so he's not blind.

00:31:46: expertise on areas where he knows that I'm not the expert here, but i wanted to know more and get people in.

00:31:53: But what is really good at it then... I don't if this is a right translation kind of keeping a red line or like keep everything that everyone's working in the same direction because obviously doesn't make sense.

00:32:08: you can have eight people around you that is an expert in all the areas, but if they aren't working together as a team then it doesn't really make sense.

00:32:18: So Jens's really good at saying okay... If person A B or C want to go right and other one wants left Then we figure out a way so everyone meets at middle You know?

00:32:30: We don't compromise everything And I think this like strong thing of the team is that we are really good at working together and everyone respect each other.

00:32:42: And then obviously Magnus has his core people, which is Jens and me in his sports scientist as well... ...and you know what I'm saying?

00:32:53: The ones who may be mostly into decision making but everybody else around there just really invested in it!

00:33:04: Like everyone from the team, two AM in middle of tonight like they would just be there.

00:33:09: I think that's the mindset of every one.

00:33:11: we all want to throw everything We have in our hands To make sure that Magnus can perform and is a great place.

00:33:19: Yeah i believe it´s the modern way Of getting into the highest performance In our sport And its a team up.

00:33:25: It´s huge team behind As you described, it was a core team.

00:33:30: I think this is very similar to the way i work with Laura for example and i try to include experts where needed in the medical side on aerodynamics side or atlantic side treatment etc... And that's really challenging to set up your teams and steer them right direction and head off towards what they are doing there.

00:33:58: Let's move over a little bit to your athletes.

00:34:01: You're building up high-performance athletes and you are building kind of squad I've seen in South Africa with your athletes for few weeks now, what is the goals this season or their development?

00:34:20: Yeah, so yeah as you said like.

00:34:22: obviously the main character that I'm working with is obviously Magnus.

00:34:26: As people a lot of People know but i'm also Like and this is set in The most respectful way to Magnus Is That?

00:34:33: I'm Also Really Like Proud To Say That i'm Also More Than That.

00:34:38: i am not Only The One That Is like.

00:34:41: I can more than just shout at Magnus but i also can perform myself as a coach.

00:34:45: I would like to jump into this, it's not about the shouting... It is!

00:34:52: To see all the tiny little bits and protect an athlete like you do.

00:34:57: And from my perspective You are taking in example how to do it around races unseen for most people because you see Magnus racing, but you can't see what's happening around.

00:35:13: and it is really like.

00:35:19: I think i can judge from ten years in triathlon.

00:35:22: What both of us did with the sport was that I believe that even this winter is a very challenging winter for you, because it didn't have the best season last year.

00:35:39: You ended up with good seventy point three worlds and maybe not the result where you want to end but there was strong performance in a very strong field And i believed these winter times were turned over every stone looking at new potentials.

00:36:01: Yeah, one hundred percent.

00:36:02: and I think that's also coming over to some of the professional athletes that i'm working with now.

00:36:09: And uh...I get a lot of like increase but also questions from athletes who want to work on me.

00:36:19: they say can do you thing I could be like Magnuson in a year?

00:36:23: I'm like, first of all that's the wrong mindset.

00:36:26: I understand obviously you want to be at a level where Magnus is on but... You should definitely not strive for being Magnus!

00:36:34: Like try yourself and also work and figure out okay?

00:36:40: Where your maximum capacity is And it actually something which has been A bit difficult in my coaching.

00:36:50: is that like for many people out there, I am also the face of Magnus in a way and everyone thinks we have certain formula.

00:36:59: That if you just duplicate this for six months then it will become world champion.

00:37:05: And i've had examples from professional athletes who has been with me only for six or eight month.

00:37:13: If they have one bad race Man, I still have a lot of work to do.

00:37:18: To get to Magnus' level.

00:37:19: they're like... ...I'm going self-coaching or.. Like i go out and figure out the new solution And that is something thats.... I think now when I have athletes that are reaching out to me it's something That Im really vocal and honest about.

00:37:37: Also Now im in very fortunate situation where its not because I Have to take in athletes taking, at least if I believe there is a potential and there's relationship that... ...I trust.

00:37:51: And that i want to work closely with where in the beginning maybe.. ..I was obviously coming up through the ranks as coach.

00:38:00: You need build-up something first but now like this also give me some scars along way it has.... At times its been really difficult not sure that the coaching is for me, it's a hard business because you can put all your effort and emotions.

00:38:16: And I think in many ways this thing with my coaching... ...that has both benefit but also maybe like negative things about my coaching.. ..is that i get really emotional to invest into my coaching.

00:38:35: If my athletes are not feeling good or they're not performing, I'm really analyzing and figuring out what can we do differently.

00:38:42: I care about the people that i am working with... ...and know you at the same time.

00:38:47: so it takes off a lot of space & energy

00:38:51: Absolutely because sometimes you get kind of symbiosis even if someone is in pain You feel your body struggling as well but that this kind of empathy is needed if you want to be close with people.

00:39:09: And in the other hand, as your are shaping a relationship and you have the professional side of it... ...and sometimes really close to friendship!

00:39:21: You can't give it clear definition.

00:39:26: Sometimes friendship is involved because we spend a lot time together.

00:39:29: I can really feel where you are in it.

00:39:32: And the other part is, um... ...I really believe in professionalism and this even on the coaching side that you have like a step back and you- You really know the targets but i can hundred percent relate to what your saying.

00:39:51: Emotional involved or you're like the whole Casper is in the game when he's taking a job for an athlete.

00:39:58: and The other side as You need kind of let's say diamonds, like let me take Magnus as diamond.

00:40:07: In this case because you can't influence someone to certain mindset.

00:40:12: And the part if people try to copy something they really have to grow their own leg.

00:40:20: They have to grow through their potential, if they want.

00:40:24: But they find it in themselves and surround themself with the best people possible And then something bigger is growing all of a sudden.

00:40:35: This needs lot time for growth.

00:40:39: I believe we didn't talk about that but i guess there's lots unseen times In the career of Magnus before he kicked asses of the big boys in twenty.

00:40:52: Yeah, a funny side note to that one is actually obviously we have covered Magnus a bit but maybe two finalize it before his really dominant performance at Seventy Point Tree Poland where people thought He had one big crash like the week before he was supposed to raise his first professional race.

00:41:19: Then, the second time when that was almost a career ending crash... ...he had on his bike and it was really close!

00:41:28: The doctor said he would never be able to swim again or lift his shoulder up.

00:41:33: And then eventually he came back from there during his first professional race again, but then crashed on a training cap uphill actually because it was slippery.

00:41:44: So there was actually you can say two years time where he was actually a professional and close to race.

00:41:51: But then He was just really unlucky with the car crash also a crash on his bike And they know obviously COVID hit and Again, he couldn't raise.

00:42:01: so You know?

00:42:04: Yeah, close to thirty months of just like time where he didn't race.

00:42:08: Obviously had to recover from an injury two times but He was just putting in a lot of work Like we are talking over thirty hours of weeks training per week for thirty month and that Was what showcased in seventy point three Poland

00:42:25: And this is something like you can't highlight four enough?

00:42:28: Yes So there were no result for him or anything like.

00:42:33: it was just plain work in the quite and this is something which still has the highest value of endurance sport that people have to work unseen, they work on themselves.

00:42:49: They are like aramids on a mountain not having Amazing social life, so because they are focusing on recovery.

00:42:59: On the other hand But this is something you have behind many many world-class performances or into all world class performance And people coming up.

00:43:10: Yeah but now let's get finally to your athletes.

00:43:15: Who was racing with you in?

00:43:19: So I have a few athletes now on board.

00:43:22: I think i have close to ten professionals, but it's actually divided over A Few runners and then also some professional triathletes.

00:43:32: so thing maybe the most known of their Professionals working with is Colin such for instance He just did the American record on The Ironman.

00:43:43: we started working together last year And finally he We made him being able to succeed at the Ironman distance.

00:43:51: So he's a young guy coming up, obviously still has lot of work to be done.

00:43:56: and then I'm working also with Sarah Jane Goodwin who is some people might know George Goodwin.

00:44:04: He was...I think he finished second in the PTO Championship where we first met and also European champion on the seventy point three distance.

00:44:14: I did use to work with George as well, but he decided in his career.

00:44:19: But um...to my luck i'm still working with George and the fact that i am coaching his wife And Sarah Jane has been actually training partner for Vicky Holland For six years on the Olympic circuit And is now translating into middle distance racing really be somebody that people should look after and I'm really excited to see how she will do it.

00:44:43: And another strong lady from Great Britain?

00:44:46: Yeah, not a strong lady in Great Britain who can swim, bike or run!

00:44:51: So yeah, that's a very interesting project for me to kind of take care from short distance into middle distance and with George knowledge as well.

00:45:01: With aerodynamic.

00:45:02: obviously his background in the sport is really helpful too.

00:45:06: have him on board.

00:45:08: then also Jason Paul another American athlete.

00:45:13: I'm working with Fiona Morati sorry not UK, I will get heard from that.

00:45:20: she's an American athlete as well.

00:45:22: Rachel Olsen another American.

00:45:25: and then i have a few like still Danish semi-professional athletes one from Chile who is called Martin Ullo aswell in my squad.

00:45:38: so yeah think of covered some good names.

00:45:44: I feel like i'm working with athletes that to me is not necessarily the most important.

00:45:52: if they have a because obviously, They need some kind of potential.

00:45:57: but it's also more as their willing do work.

00:46:00: Because I believe you can have all talent in your world But If You Don't Want To Do The Work Then It's Game Over.

00:46:10: and for instance And this is not to take it over to Clemence Young.

00:46:15: I worked with Clemance for one and a half years, where he won his first Ironman on home soil in Nice.

00:46:24: He also won the ITU long distance world championship and finished top ten at the Ironman World Championship in Nice where he was actually, that was maybe a bit too aggressive on the bike but with same ladelow and home soil in Nice there were two of an aggressive tactic.

00:46:44: And I really liked Clemang.

00:46:45: but also very honest after World Championship in Nice He told me this training for at least is it's to much like i need some more flexibility.

00:47:00: you can say And this is obviously, like a philosophy in a way or he wanted more fun.

00:47:07: He wanted to have adventure in his training and looking back now... This was also one of the things that I've learned by coaching.

00:47:16: Obviously at that time needed maybe adapt my training into something which could be more translatable for Climont.

00:47:27: but there's still a certain recipe in professional racing where like, you cannot just train fifteen hours a week and be the best in the world.

00:47:39: Like... You need to do the work!

00:47:41: And Clément could see that training worked really well.

00:47:44: he won his first Ironman.

00:47:47: He was up at front of a race in World Championship.

00:47:50: Doing it alone is difficult but there's too much for him.

00:47:54: He needed different way which I totally respect.

00:47:58: And looking back, maybe I wanted to have a different approach with him because he's obviously... ...a different character and has a lot of potential.

00:48:07: But yeah it was just say that like It takes a certain person do this training.

00:48:13: That is required now Like ever since Covid-and you know that.

00:48:18: Yeah Even the sport leveled up even more Since The races appeared when we are talking about, so the sport is accelerating even more.

00:48:30: So this let's say quiet work, disciplined work.

00:48:35: it's even more required because there's just a very small space for mistakes during racing and during training and recovery.

00:48:46: You see more and more complete athletes.

00:48:49: I think where have development at that moment with upcoming twenty meter rule?

00:48:55: that there is no room for weakness, so even a small weakness on the bike will be problem with a twenty meter rule.

00:49:05: So if you swim great and have very punchy run now you'll cover this ninety or hundred eighty K on your bike.

00:49:15: I guess it's not in best bike shape possible to respond.

00:49:19: high intensity attacks really, really difficult for athletes.

00:49:27: And I believe this profile... So i'm fully on your side that it requires the perfection or just to strive for it?

00:49:39: Yeah and It is a difficult task For the athlete To do what Is required nowadays.

00:49:45: You see examples as let's say Christian Blumenfeld Who like he is somebody who can grind through training up in altitude by himself for several weeks, and it's not everyone that can do that.

00:50:00: And I must also have learned along the way... The way that i'm working with Magnus is not the same as when I am working with Colin or the way I work with Colin isn't like when I was working with Fiona or Ruth Essel.

00:50:17: So there are different ways to be successful.

00:50:21: And I think actually if you take on the male side, for instance Sam Laidlow and Magnus they are polar opposites in a way that obviously is vocal about himself but also like Sam is really vocal about it he needs breaks within his training.

00:50:42: He's totally off even when have some fun along the way or like take a break where Magnus is the total opposite.

00:50:52: Like he would lose energy by having to, you know... Have funds.

00:50:57: maybe there's also wrong ways put it but You know?

00:51:02: It's to figure out as coach what do my athletes get energy from?

00:51:06: because if they get energy sometimes From maybe having an afternoon off To see some friends obviously It's not something you can do every afternoon, but if it is now and then.

00:51:17: And it will fill them up with energy than like that's a part of the puzzle and they can still be successful.

00:51:24: I think this may be one of the most valuable things that i have learned along the way in... ...and something that I wished I had knew when I was working with Clemang for instance because.. ..I think If-if I knew by then we could still have a coach-athlete relationship and build upon what we started.

00:51:44: So that looking back is I would say a mistake on my end.

00:51:48: And yeah, but uh... That's the beauty of it.

00:51:51: you learn along the way and luckily i'm sitting here and feel like.. ..I know more!

00:51:56: But there are still alot I don't know.

00:52:01: I think this is something everyone can say Like There're some more You Don´t Know But to really have This clear eye on where's the individual development.

00:52:13: I think this makes a very good coach and you are one of these coaches out there, like i think people looking at it.

00:52:23: so we're really happy to have your here in our podcast To look at that from my perspective.

00:52:29: if would sum up with the case We always say we prioritize health as physical health, psychological health and social health then it's a part.

00:52:42: And maybe you can push away the social part for a few weeks and I think this is what people are doing.

00:52:49: If they go to Sierra Nevada or certain other places in high altitude, you're on your own!

00:52:56: And spend lots of hours on yourself... You described it by Christian Blumfeldt and he obviously spent more time than many other athletes at high altitudes.

00:53:11: so maybe his need isn't as big for social life in it, but I don't know.

00:53:20: It's just a perception from the outside of what he is doing.

00:53:23: But here's the pinnacle.

00:53:24: at this moment He has the strongest athlete on several distances.

00:53:33: So its interesting to have look and not copying him, but to recognize that I

00:53:43: agree.

00:53:43: And this is something we are also talking a lot about, the two of us as well.

00:53:51: Philippus You know like everyone is looking at The secret or special recipe for success At that moment and by end of day it's not a certain program Or session.

00:54:08: let say six times ten minutes makes a difference, but what really make the difference now in high performance board is like with all their professionals.

00:54:16: I have obviously we made a framework for our training block that can maybe last let's say five weeks and then within those five weeks Obviously every week looks like there was development.

00:54:28: But i would say obviously There are periods where everything is just into flow and Training peaks will be green.

00:54:37: Also for some of them, we have conversations daily with just doing small adjustments based upon HIV resting heart rate.

00:54:45: How obviously their internal feeling is that it's like the metrics can say everything in the world.

00:54:50: but if they're athletes are feeling bad or feelin' good?

00:54:54: That will always be there as a key driver to me and... But this small changes I think also what makes most important because then create consistency.

00:55:05: And you know, sometimes these small adjustments let's say an athlete will change from doing six times ten minutes to just five time ten minutes or four times ten minute because one has maybe slept in hour less than they usually do.

00:55:19: Because of something... Let us see that.

00:55:21: so make sure we are not overextending the total strain after day and making sure that we can align with how much recovery That small adjustment can maybe do that instead of, they will then feel tired after.

00:55:38: Maybe during the prescribed session for two days and we have to like take fully rest?

00:55:43: Then that small adjustment could be done in a day or so before continuing as prescribed.

00:55:48: I think this is one thing on our tool which is very underestimated in coaching not only from the coaches aspect but also The athletes perspective, I mean you can maybe like not to this as well that obviously with some of your athletes Like you don't see them every day so Obviously was with Laura because she's use your wife and then you live With her.

00:56:12: You can see here on a daily basic but with the at least there we Don't necessarily see everyday.

00:56:18: Then there is also a certain Like degree of education from our side to educate the athlete on taking individual decisions in training as well, because like that also translate into racing.

00:56:35: Because yeah we can be there on race day giving splits and saying stuff but maybe along a eight or nine hour race We can only talk to them five or six times for what is?

00:56:46: Maybe two or three seconds.

00:56:47: so That is almost zero percent of the race time.

00:56:52: So ninety-nine point nine percent of their race time.

00:56:54: they have to take decisions themselves And I believe the biggest task for us as a coach is then to educate our athletes, To be independent in that.

00:57:05: Like i almost want... ...to feel like my athlete and this should be understood In the right mean That they should ALMOST FEEL THAT I AM.

00:57:18: They don't need me!

00:57:19: I have been educating them that much that they know how the structure is.

00:57:24: They know the decisions, because if I have made them or prepared to be able take those decisions then i feel like my job has done me best of my ability.

00:57:36: If it makes sense

00:57:37: Yeah and in the end this kind of philosophy... If you want a strong athlete the goal that they are on their own, have freedom and can walk alone.

00:57:55: I think we have a very similar picture of high-performance athletes.

00:58:00: so... We want to have independent individuals.

00:58:06: They come for certain topics together with you in personal development sports development And at end.

00:58:14: high performance is as result of this process.

00:58:19: I want to focus on another topic, maybe the last one for today like yeah i know you're really into sport and we have an actual development that had a twenty meter rule coming up For all races of this year.

00:58:42: We had our first race with Ironman New Zealand.

00:58:46: What is your take on it?

00:58:48: And from your personal perspective, what's going to change.

00:58:52: Have you seen at the Ironman New Zealand ?

00:58:56: What are yours about it?

00:58:57: and yeah...what will be different?

00:59:00: like I think we have seen a few races with the T- one hundred but in the end The most interesting races haven't been With a twenty meter rule.

00:59:09: so i would be keen to have Your take of this.

00:59:13: Yeah, there is obviously a big curiosity to how much the twenty meter draft rule will impact The racing we have today.

00:59:21: I think As you said like it has that the twenty-meter draft rule has been there in T one hundred But i think It's not something That would be showcased In either t one hundred or seventy point tree raising because?

00:59:35: The distance covered Is just Not Obviously, there is still something to say with the twenty-meter raffle on T one hundred and seventy point three Racing but on an Ironman.

00:59:45: when you go into that those last thirty or forty K of the bike And also going in for the run afterwards has obviously plays a huge factor.

00:59:53: I think this past weekend's race with our men New Zealand where we saw Trevor Foley do a magnificent performance and taking the win Obviously Katz won on the women's side, but we've seen that before and she is obviously very strong across all three disciplines where Trevor normally comes out with a deficit from the swim.

01:00:14: And what he has struggled a lot with this then... That he had to do so much an overpower expenditure for the first bit of the race To just make sure part-of-the-race like.

01:00:30: To be honest, and I haven't talked with Trevor about this.

01:00:33: So so i can say it uh...with one hundred percent certainty but.. ..I would imagine that Trevor maybe even biked a little bit more passively compared to what he's done in the past.

01:00:44: And we also saw that he Even though now with the twenty meter draft rule where like quote-unquote you need to Be able to bike better That there will harm your run In a way.

01:00:55: But he ran one of his best marathon run spits if not the best considering that now people had to race more themselves in the bike, but I think actually this comes down too.

01:01:05: Maybe he was riding way more passively on the bike because he knew everyone has to work themself as well so i don't have to chase the front pack to gain benefit of being there and motorbikes etc... I think also one thing about coverage is At least I didn't saw a motorbike in front of the athlete very often.

01:01:28: They were often behind, which made it really an individual race and i know there are opinions about whether this is good thing or bad thing.

01:01:38: There's tactical aspect as well but... ...I was happy to see that people now has be strong across all three disciplines

01:01:52: the results of it and I'm keen to see differences.

01:01:58: And Arma in New Zealand is definitely an example that sometimes you have a hermetic swim group at the front, they are going over the bike leg or maybe Trevor might have lacked energy after his chase.

01:02:20: I'm very positive about it, and i am keen to see more races.

01:02:24: And as you said... It is a new game on the long distance!

01:02:32: Even if it comes to challenging courses like Challenge Road for example.. Is not just flat course or some technical aspects.

01:02:44: I believe this comes down to the root of the triathlon, what was intended?

01:02:50: that there is more or less an individual time trial.

01:02:52: Definitely twenty meters not completely individual but it comes close to...the basic idea of it and i believe thats a very positive development.

01:03:06: And yeah..I am looking forward To interesting season of racing in

01:03:15: twenty-twenty six?

01:03:15: Yeah, and I think also it's at least from my end.

01:03:19: And i think its the same for you uh...I have atleast changed a few things In my training form.

01:03:25: my athletes Uh..i work with both athletes that is front pack swimmers .

01:03:30: I also worked with athletes That come From an on swim background ,and has to Work their way up through The field ..And With those athletes like maybe going having a very big swim focus, then now we are maybe working more towards obviously making sure that they are metabolic efficient on the swim for their level.

01:03:51: They have so we know that they can come out of the water and be able to execute the bag and run level that they have because now Obviously still want them to come up with a small deficit So they don't have to chase the whole day but it doesn't stress us as much And We Can.

01:04:08: Maybe Instead of catalyzing their limitation in training, we can actually now capitalize.

01:04:15: Their expertise or like they're strong parts off triathlon which for some of them is the bike and run like We can use them more than we could before Which I think it's super interesting.

01:04:27: but also The other way around with the at least i have that his front peg swimmers That maybe they haven't had the strongest bike but used the tactical elements of the twelve-meter draft rule where obviously you still had to pedal, uh... the bike around a ninety or one hundred and eighty k but You could do it with less power compared what they have now.

01:04:50: so that also changed way.

01:04:53: we have scheduled training like for some them maybe even though can sound silly.

01:04:59: Maybe at least I have frontpacks used more time now on the swim to really make sure that they can, like use that for their full ability and maybe put pressure in the swim.

01:05:13: And then come out of the bike again also putting some pressure.

01:05:16: so you know I think it's created a very interesting way of racing.

01:05:22: seeing New Zealand race definitely just got me even more hyped for this season.

01:05:29: Yeah, I believe that's a super interesting insight for our auditory because... ...I'm keen to see what coaches have done in the winter.

01:05:39: No one knows!

01:05:41: You give it first little inside of your thinking about.

01:05:45: definitely I did my conclusions on this as well.

01:05:48: and structured training maybe a bit different Maybe similar to what i did years before but yeah how its gonna impact the work, and we haven't talked about for example error positions there.

01:06:04: So sometimes an error position which is maybe completely prioritized on aerodynamics where you can pedal with low power pretty fast but may be do a different arrow position when have higher power output because you know that bike counts even more where we're going to end up.

01:06:31: I think this is worth another podcast, maybe in summertime when we have seen more races takes us and so on around already round the corner.

01:06:41: And yeah Caspar!

01:06:45: i think it's a good part our first, or podcast.

01:06:49: and I think i have a lot of more questions to you.

01:06:53: maybe we can do it.

01:06:55: A second edition of this.

01:06:57: thank you very much for very open insight into your system and into your development as a very young coach on elite levels.

01:07:06: It's great to have you in the group of coaches And Thank You For Taking Time From My First English Version Of Kickers Radio.

01:07:17: Big thanks to Denmark.

01:07:20: You know, it's me saying thank you Philip for having me on and I also want publicly too say a big thank-you to you.

01:07:28: i think young athletes as me we need coaches like you with the experience is that we obviously have conversation and had that ever since.

01:07:44: We met each other in Daytona but over the recent years, we've had more deep conversations And sometimes to be honest I asked myself if i put something into a table because you always come up with some really great knowledge for me.

01:08:00: So I just wanted publicly to say a big thank you for your transparency and the way that you have acted as also a mentor.

01:08:07: For me, I highly appreciate it.

01:08:09: And yeah That is what we need in this sport.

01:08:12: if we also want one thing Is there be one young athletes come up?

01:08:15: But If We Also Want Young Coaches To Come Up Maybe Have Another Perspective on This Board We Need persons like you, so your big inspiration for me as a coach and I appreciate it.

01:08:28: I'm getting red.

01:08:31: the part is It's The same way with your athletes.

01:08:34: at some point You need people to challenge your ideas To see if peoples think similar or different And this Is something i found With you!

01:08:47: For Me its great to take This to our podcast.

01:08:53: Let's see where we are heading to and thank you for listening, thanks for joining.